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Author Topic: The final debate.  (Read 2930 times)
Slyke
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« on: 05/09/2010, 05:42 PM »



Picture paints a 1000 posts.
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DonutKing
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« Reply #1 on: 05/09/2010, 05:54 PM »

well, yeah, but




also this argument isn't really relevant any more, now that Macs are pretty much just PC's wearing glittery parachute pants.

And the DeLorean is a bad choice for linux's car anyway... Linux sucks as a desktop OS but who in their right mind wouldn't take the DeLorean over either of those other cars... seriously.
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KARNAGE
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« Reply #2 on: 05/09/2010, 06:06 PM »

to say windows vista is better than mac. greatest fail I have seen in a while.

also slyke, I love you for that post, it's very true
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DonutKing
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« Reply #3 on: 05/09/2010, 06:56 PM »

so what's wrong with vista? or are you just jumping on the hate vista bandwagon? Smiley

the point made in the cartoon is still very valid.
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KARNAGE
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« Reply #4 on: 05/09/2010, 07:09 PM »

I've used Vista. absolutely AWFUL. my mate has Vista, and hated it till he had to fix it. my dad has Vista and its terrible. XP on a mac, desktop and laptop runs faster and works better (less fails) than Vista on desktop and laptop.

that'd be why for me. Also you could play a fair amount of games on Mac OS X even before Steam went on mac
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Psych0Kyller
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« Reply #5 on: 05/09/2010, 07:12 PM »

so what's wrong with vista? or are you just jumping on the hate vista bandwagon? Smiley
vista is essentially an incomplete version of 7 so yeah it fails everyones on the bandwagon Kiss
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DonutKing
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« Reply #6 on: 05/09/2010, 07:19 PM »

Quote
Also you could play a fair amount of games on Mac OS X even before Steam went on mac
'a fair amount' is a far cry from the vast library available on the pc Smiley

like I said before, it hardly matters anyway because macs and pc's are the same architecture now.
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Virgil83
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« Reply #7 on: 05/09/2010, 07:30 PM »

I'm sorry, but I have to side with DonutKing, a fellow IT Professional here... Vista bashing is a user's passtime... Windows Vista is actually quite usable in it's current incarnation, albeit not as good as Windows 7 in my opinion.

Vista was a dog at launch, but then again, that was a tradition thing as much as it was a poor OS thing... every version of Windows, with the seeming exception of Windows 7 (which hasn't been absolutely perfect, but has been markedly better than any other release) and to a much lesser extent, Windows 2000 Professional, has been absolute dog.

Many people don't remember the Windows XP launch, most especially those of you who are too young to have been exposed at great length to computers at that time... but XP was a dog too... it wasn't until Service Pack 2 that Windows XP improved enough to be a reasonable solution.  Pre-SP2, I was still recommending to my employers that Windows 2000 Professional was the better corporate IT choice.

I was lucky/unlucky enough to be the Team Leader of a project during my time at Chubb to investigate the feasibility of moving Chubb's corporate network from a Windows 2000 Professional major/XP minor with Office 2003 SOE to fully Windows Vista/Office 2007 solution.  Dell (our corporate supplier) sent us a number of their mid and higher end corporate desktops and laptops, and in March of 2007 our team rigorously tested both newly released products, Office 2007 Enterprise edition, and Windows Vista (Ultimate and Business Premium editions).

To say the results were abysmal would be an understatement... and I remember quite vividly the last line of my report on the testing read "I can not in good conscience recommend at this time that we move away from our current Standard Operating Environment in favour of a Windows Vista and Office 2007 solution"... it was easily the biggest fail project I'd ever been involved with.  But in one respect it was useful, I'd seen Vista at it's absolute worst... 2 months after it's release it was just fucking terrible.

However, as time passed, I came to have in my possession in late 2008 a copy of Windows Vista Ultimate w/SP1 and I thought I'd give it a go... I was amazed at the transformation.  Certainly, a higher spec processor, more RAM and DDR3 technology helped, but the OS itself had improved.  In the same way that XP had been a dog and SP2 had set it right, Vista's SP1 and SP2 releases had transformed it as well.  I happily used Vista Ultimate for more than a year, until I moved to Windows 7 (on the same machine) in July this year.  In my opinion during that time, Vista was a stable, reliable, albeit resource intensive OS.

However, all things being equal and all things being said... Windows 7 has had a much better release and inital operation period than Vista (or XP) ever had, and the Windows 7 OS platform is, in my opinion, the best Windows client OS so far.
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KARNAGE
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« Reply #8 on: 05/09/2010, 07:35 PM »

Quote
Also you could play a fair amount of games on Mac OS X even before Steam went on mac
'a fair amount' is a far cry from the vast library available on the pc Smiley

like I said before, it hardly matters anyway because macs and pc's are the same architecture now.
I looked at the hardware on a mac after looking for some new parts (I am in desperate need of new parts) I swear I thought I was looking at a PC in a nice case (very small tower Kiss)

The earliest OS for me was windows 95, dont know what kind (wasnt into tech the) but it was good. windows 2000 seemed no differant. XP (service pack 2) was great and I liked it a lot, then came Vista and after trying it out a fair bit. it was, like I said, awful. the Vista (no idea what kind) is just as dodgy as it was before. my mates was horrid, his computer crashed 4 times within an hour Kiss it crashed 9 times that night
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cryptochild4
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« Reply #9 on: 05/09/2010, 08:12 PM »

my earliest os were DOS and windows 3.11
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DonutKing
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« Reply #10 on: 05/09/2010, 08:19 PM »

Win 95 was far from brilliant when it came out. There were 4 service packs for 95, it used to be unstable as hell due to a number of design flaws that pesisted all the way through Win98 and Win ME (which are explained in greater detail here. 98 was more of the same, there was a couple of service packs for that, and let's not forget that it crashed with a BSOD before a live audience when Bill Gates was announcing it to the world. ME, well, its status as a poor operating system is legendary. It did nothing better than 98 but just hid all the DOS mode functions when there was still a lot of legacy applications that used it.

It was this instability of the win9x kernel that really started a push for 'linux on the desktop' because it didn't suffer from the flaws that could cause Win9x to crash. At the time it was infinitely more stable. After XP became the standard though, this isn't really the case and generally linux is no more stable than Xp/vista/Win7. A lack of commercial software to run on linux, and the wildly varying quality of open source applications really only leaves the cost factor in linux's favour as a desktop OS. It also doesn't help that there is a total lack of consistency between linux distributions, so even someone who is cluey with one distribution of linux might be scratching their head if they try to use a different one. Its useful as a server OS but even then, there's a saying that 'linux is only free if your time is worthless'. Sometimes it might be worth paying for a commercial product that 'just works' and has vendor support, rather than fiddling with open source software to try and achieve the same thing. Having said that, I have a couple of linux servers at work that do what they are supposed to quite well, but really, I don't think linux is ever going to be more than a novelty on the desktop.
Many years ago I dual booted Mandrake linux and Win2k, I would surf the web/type up schoolwork in linux and reboot into windows when I wanted to play a game or use an app that wasn't available on linux. after a while though I sort of realised that windows was capable of doing everything I needed and I was really just wasting time swapping OS's constantly so I stuck with windows.

Even XP has had several service packs, and Virgil is right when he says it was a dog when it came out, I remember it quite vividly. When I was using Win2k at home it was always faster then XP was. As the average user's hardware became faster, and manufacturers got more comfortable with writing XP compatible drivers, XP improved exponentially. Let's not forget things like blaster and sasser that took out pc's all over the world due to flaws in XP's code.

I was using Vista ultimate until recently and really, the only thing that was bad about it was UAC which is pretty easy to disable. I had pretty fast hardware so it wasn't any slower than XP on my machine really. Karnage if your friends computer is crashing all the time with vista I would suggest that either he has a hardware problem or he did something silly like download a porno that ends in .exe - i.e. its not vista's fault.

I currently use win 7 pro merely because I got a cheap licence. UAC is improved and I haven't bothered to disable it, but apart from that there's not a great deal that's improved over vista. I'm kind of undecided on the application stacking on the taskbar, it can be annoying sometimes. Really I could go either way on vista/win7.

Also remember the mojave experiment where people liked vista if you didn't tell them what it was. This is what I mean by bandwagon, as psychokyller said 'everyone is on the bandwagon' - well that's pretty much the definition of a bandwagon, everyone jumps on because they don't bother to think for themselves and make their own opinion. I've heard people say that vista sucks but nobody can say exactly why. The only thing I can really fault with it is UAC which you can turn off anyway.

As for mac, well I've used Mac OSX for a bit on other people's machines and it does things a bit differently but I wouldn't necessarily say better. I could use it if I had to but I don't see why I would pick it over windows. if every application I wanted to use was available on mac OSX I'd probably use it but I can't really justify the price premium. I build my own PC's and I don't care if my computer's case looks a bit flashier, I'm busy looking at the screen not the case. If people want to pay extra for it then that's their prerogative. I don't necessarily think mac OSX is any easier to use that windows either, both do thing their own way and both have their learning curve. If anything I find its more annoying trying to find configuration settings on the mac compared to windows. I've also seen Mac OSX suffer from 'performance rot', my one-time flatmate had a powerPC based macbook that really bogged down from all the shit he used to install for uni. He ended up taking it to apple for service who reformatted it. Also, contrary to popular belief, there are viruses for macs and Apple is actually pretty abysmal at patching security holes compared to microsoft.

at the end of the day, just use whatever the fuck you like. They each do things differently so use whichever appeals to you most.



my earliest os were DOS and windows 3.11

Same Smiley until recently I had an old 486 that I used to boot up and tool around with. It gave a real sense of accomplishment to free up enough conventional or EMS memory to play some of the more finicky games... you felt like you earned the right to play Kiss
« Last Edit: 05/09/2010, 08:36 PM by DonutKing » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: 05/09/2010, 08:43 PM »

lol, i started out with a friggin typewriter....my mum was a secretary so that is what i first started on... it was electronic and had a LCD display to show what you typed before you pressed return and the line was typed out.....
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« Reply #12 on: 05/09/2010, 11:31 PM »

bah vista has got nothing on Me in the fail dept

and the original pic i find very accurate if you look at the way there made and run
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Slyke
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« Reply #13 on: 06/09/2010, 10:59 PM »

They be hatin' mah pics.

Linux is the best desktop and server opperating system you can have. The problem is most don't know how to use it.

Macs and PCs are pretty much the same, except macs are at least 2x expensive. Also Windows shits all over OSX unless you're a complete noob and new to computing. You can do so much more in Windows then OSX.
Worst part of my job is supporting macs.
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« Reply #14 on: 06/09/2010, 11:31 PM »

Mac OS X was a big jump for apple especially when they his 10.5 for that is when it looks fancy, if you look at the os itself it can be quite logical at times for placement of files etc
i mainly use os x for work so i have had to learn how to use it and well it is a bit of an adjustment at first but well now it is like meh

windows i started on dos and win 3.11 then 95 then quickly to 98, XP was probably the longest os i have used but i did eventually go to vista for games and now i am 7
everyone is right about each os release having bugs but i found vista to be the worst but i do understand most of it was HW related

Linux, well the only one i have used to some success is ubuntu and well i do like it but don't really have the time or the need to play around with it so meh

ultimately it is what you find to be the best for you not what people tell you is the best.
i am happy to use both mac and pc if i could afford it but since pc is cheaper i am sticking with it for now
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