Death Inc

http://www.news.com.au/world-news/north-america/washington-dc-navy-yard-shooter-8216obsessed-with-violent-video-games8217-report/story-fnh81jut-1226721583410


At least they blame COD

CoD deserves all blame.

I bet that story is sponsored by the american gun association to divert the publics attention away from gun control laws.

there is no need for joe public to own and ar15 end of fucking story.

150% agree..

Wonder how long its going to take them to realize they cant blame it on anything but their own culture they have created.

They should plaster the faces of the victims on TV and newspaper so they are forced to look at the result of their gun culture...
Less emphasis on the offender, more on the innocent victims.

Agreed, no one needs a semi auto centrefire. I hunt fine with a bolt action, although a semi auto .22lr could come in handy on occasion.

An interesting read on gun control in the states, it's long but well written.

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/2012/12/20/an-opinion-on-gun-control/

TLDR for Bohica and Eviserator I grabbed this line from it.


He says a lot, but it kind of boils down to this. "Guns are here and aren't going anywhere. The best way to stop madmen with guns, is give sane people guns." If you think that's wrong, read the article, it's a compelling argument from a guy who knows his stuff.

gun control worked in australia... so the whole "guns are here to stay" argument is not entirely true. Although i do believe it can be a very bad thing to give the government so much power over its citizens and not give them anything to protect themselves from a tyrannical government. Whether this argument holds up in a western/developed society, I'm not sure... It is certainly true in places like Syria...

This 3 part series is pretty awesome. It is on gun control in australia vs the US
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pOiOhxujsE

Dex the thing you're missing is that Australia is not the US. Even if you overlook the fact that the country is saturated with weapons and has been for hundreds of years, the right to bear arms is in their constitution. It's a law as old as Australia specifically saying in the US, you can have a gun. That's a heck of a lot different from rounding up a couple of thousand rifles in Australia because of some nut job in Tasmania.
Besides buy back have been tried in the US, and they didn't work. The net effect was to increase the value of certain weapons because buy backs made the ones people kept collectors items.

I'd argue America already has a tyrannical government, the citizens just don't seem to realise it. They pretty much get to do what they want, contract companies they own, and treat the citizens like dirt.

Yeah, that is fair enough, and I understand the significance of the constitution, but it is not the be-all and end all of what should be done. I'm not saying gun control should be increased in the US, or that automatic weapons should be taken away from people, but just because it was written on a piece of paper in 1971, doesn't mean it is inherently right.

I don't live in the US, so it is not for me to say what should be done there, however something probably should be done with all the fatalities. Whether it be gun control like in australia, or making guns more accessible to the rest of the US population so that if anyone was to fire on someone, they'd be dead before they shot the second person, I don't know.

People shouldn't be so caught up in the past that they neglect to see the changing environment. The second amendment was written when full auto machine guns didnt exist. Times are changing, people (and laws) need to change with them.

holy jesus fuckballs.. that was a massive read!
i did manage to get through it and i found a few things i didnt like, i did 100% agree with these quotes and i think these steps + proper education and regular free mental health their problem would subside



some very informative points in there but hes trying to use the whole "fight fire with fire" argument.

The media always calls the civilian owned AR-15 as an Assault Rifle. It's not.
The AR stands for Armalite Rifle, Armalite being the company that made it.
An Assault Rifle is a full automatic capable weapon used by Military/Police Forces. Civilians can purchase a "Assault Rifle" in America but it's takes lot's of paper work, a different license and a shitload of money. An M-16 is around $16,000.
(Sorry, this is just something that annoys me when I see it on TV, also when people call magazines "Clips")

I've been shooting a few time when I was younger at a Gun Range and I really enjoyed it and as much as I would love to own an M1 Garand, I'd rather have a country where mass shooting sprees don't occur on a regular bases.

America has some serious issues and it's going to take along time for it to get better over there.
Just for starters they need to stop blaming violent Movies/Games.
Pump a shitload of money into Mental Health.
Change up their drug laws, legalize most drugs = tax dollars + taking away the main reason people are killing each other.
Stop being so quick to use violence, it seems like human life is not very valuable over there.

Plus how the media handles it needs to change as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stc42j4Nz2w

Just rewrite the constitution.

Its not like we still uphold the laws of caveman in todays society, it was writtens years ago and is time for a refresh.

Exactly, MAGAZINES ARE NOT CLIPS (looks at psycho) it shits me every time someone calls a mag a clip.
M16 (military version)= Assault rifle it has semi and auto capabilities
AR15 (civilian version)= Only semi automatic no auto

You can buy an automatic in america easy as long as it was registered and made before 1986. They cannot be imported from outside the United States, and can no longer manufacture and/or register new/existing full auto weapons with the federal government.

So its like semi automatics in australia, what ever many were in the country as of 1996 stay in the country and its all we got in circulation and cant import anymore.

Basically i believe america needs to adopt our gun laws but that will be very hard for them to accept.

A magazine and a clip are very similar though, and do pretty much the exact same thing. It's hardly a fact to get worked up over.

They are not very similar and are not pretty much the exact same thing. Clips are just faster way to load a magazine whether it be an internal magazine or detachable box mag instead of 1 bullet at a time which takes longer. If you tried to fire a weapon from a "clip" it just isn't possible. I have a k98kurz which i use stripper clips to feed rounds into the internal magazine, the stripper clip doesn't go into the rifle.

Fucking pigs a$$! I would love an AR15 :D More shots at the feral animal your trying to control :) America was founded and divided over the GUN. Some how i'm not sure they will ever get it right. The President of the USA was shot by a sniper rifle. If that on it's own will not change the law on types of guns and gun ownership, nothing fucking will.  8)

Gun laws in America will never change purely for one reason. Their government makes too much money off them. If laws were tightened businesses would go bankrupt and there would be alot of unemployment (all the major ammunition factories are at max capacity, Federal is extending their factory by a few 100sq m to combat this).

They will never change because the government is never an accurate representation of the public. Their govt. system is fucked, they don't have a proportionate senate (ie: size of the govt. is proportional to the size of the population) and nobody has the balls to come out an say this is an issue. They are schoolchildren, something bad happens and they are all pointing fingers at scapegoats. They'd rather blame porn and video games than acknowledge that the issue exists. It's like mental health and alcohol here, none of the politicians are ballsy enough to recognize these issues. Too busy stopping the boats and taxing the air.

Can't create a solution to a problem you haven't acknowledged.

Well our governments solution to cigarettes and alcahol is put more tax on it. In my opinion restriction or heavy tax on something affects people who are law abiding more than those who arent. Its ridiculous, slab of VB or equivilent is more expensive than some imported beers. Wheres the logic in that?

LOL, hit the nail right on the head. They've had 2 presidents assassinated by guns, don't forget Linchon was gunned down as well.

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/03/26/nr-draft-how-important-are-guns-to-the-u-s-economy-for-starters-the-firearms-industry-employs-twice-as-many-americans-as-bailed-out-gm/

hahahahahaha

The way I see it, the scarier the USA looks, the less likely anyone will start another world war, and that is fine by me.

(http://i.imgur.com/WYKgABv.gif)

Aaaaand another shooting in the US

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9191246/Shooting-in-US-park

Donut is always so right. The more I watch that gif the more it makes sense in a discussion on gun control in the US.

Check out the Swiss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

I think a lot of this is media driven hype.... for example, i do not see any discussion in this thread about gun control laws in Austria, even though some crazy guy just shot and killed 4 policeman earlier in the week..... or last week some crazy guy in china set a bomb off at a school...

Well i can say for certain its going to get harder to get ammunition, so if you own guns bulk up on ammo asap. The US gov has contracted major manufacturers all over europe to produce military brass only for the US gov and only a small trickle of regular production is getting to civilian hands. Every gun shop i have been too in melbourne has been saying to me lately. USA is up to something dodgy.

Im not 100% on that fact but heed it and buy lots of ammo anyway lol

Perhaps they need it for the aliens they found  while faking the moon landings?

lol i dunno man its just what ive been hearing around town

"the right to arms' was written in American history for just that. Back in the day, police and militia and the olé us army was thin. Indians could kill you, a bear could rape you and north vs south was still raw. So, to ensure the safety of America, it branched away from European traditional laws and granted the' right to bare arms' in the chance to protect its American values back then.

Fast forward to today and usa has no civil enemies, and is now an enemy to itself. Outside enemies would be suicidal as a nuke would fuck that up for everyone.

What really needs to occur is to readdress the rights. Why is it so important to now day bare arms? If there is no reason other than personal self defense, than get rid of them. If a country had little firearms per capita than shootings would drop. Imho.

States with more guns and can legally carry a side arm where ever you go have less crime and murders than states with less guns... Gun free zones in america have the highest crime/murder rates and that's a proven fact.

I would argue that's because criminals would go to the places with the least amount of guns to commit their crimes. There is no good solution, people are gonna die in the process because they've fucked up their own country by not acting fast enough. Australia did the "right" thing by acting swiftly before our population skyrockets and guns are "domesticated". America is fuuuuckkkeeeddddd.

Kinda of on the ball, carrying side arms evens out the playing field so no one bothers risking being slow on the trigger. You can have a 60 year old lady and a 20 year old bloke without sidearms, the 20 year old bloke would easily bash and rob an old lady, where as if they both have sidearms they each have the same chance if u get what i mean. That's why those states permit you to carry where ever you go thus have a very low crime rate.

I,d rather live in a place that you are able to carry a side arm for your personal protection than be a little nobody and be dictated upon by the government the reason they still have guns is becuase there National rifle association is a whole lot bigger than their government and thus has the power to dictate there terms which if all the gun owners in Australia acted as one then we would have a better chance of keeping our  weapons and it only took 1 fuckhead tasmanian to do it for us ........My thoughts move to Canada and live the way you should in peace and protection.

I remember reading about this after that theater shooting a year or two ago.

Turned out that there were a couple of people in the audience that had concealed sidearms but none of them had the balls to pull their weapon and use it.
Basically everyone said that was a good thing as given the circumstances it was most likely that an innocent would have been caught in the crossfire.

I'm against civilians being able to own and carry weapons. It just takes one untrained idiot trying to be a hero to kill a bystander or escalate the situation. America has such a huge amount of gun crime, if its two black dudes killing each other in the ghetto it usually doesn't even get reported. The greater availability of legal guns makes it much easier for the criminals to obtain illegal guns as well. I don't believe that civilian gun ownership acts as a deterrent either, America still has a significant gun crime rate even in states with concealed carry laws.

You have to realise that the USA has a huge social-economic problem where the lower class are increasingly disadvantaged, due to poor social security, healthcare and education and end up turning to a life of crime because they see no other alternative. Yet the rich keep on getting richer.

The whole NRA thing is symptomatic of a greater social issue in America where rich corporations are becoming increasingly powerful, and basically buy the government's support for their own agendas, and in turn increase the ever widening class divide. This is not something we should strive to emulate.

This had me intrigued.  So i did some looking into it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9313_United_States_ammunition_shortage

The illegal firearms in this country are commonly available if you know the right people and there is no way of stopping it .Yes i have been offered different weapons at times and its very tempting but i'm not going to jail for it now that the amnesty has finished its a very very thin line to walk if you get caught with one .

I don't really agree, but then that's why it's an opinion. I think we all have to acknowledge the fucktards that will ruin it for the rest of us, but being able to carry a gun never justifies the loss of life because of people going ape and killing some. At the end of the day, it's the selfishness of the majority that is resulting in the deaths of innocents over there, and I'm happy it's fucking hard to get a gun here, because I know I wouldn't want the fundamentalists that live next door to me to own one.

I only read pg 1 as I couldnt assed going further, but have those putting forward the idea of gun control considered the following?:
1. What was the weapon actually used?
2. Was the weapon registered to ANYONE or originated from the Black-market, having NEVER passed through channels where 'gun controls' would have affected his access to it?
3. What % of gun crime, espeacially multiple murders, here or in the US, is actually committed using legitimate weapons in the hands of their owners. (apart from non-premeditated spousicide, as that can just a easily be committed using a butter-knife, toothbrush or a rolled up phone-book)

The way I look at it, if crims & crazies want guns they WILL get them, & there essentially NOTHING we can do to stamp it out. (Anyone for some coke or heroin?). This considered, if the guns have to be illegally imported because theres nothing locally on offer, what type of weapon are they going to choose to import??? Bolt action center-fires? NO. Semi-auto rimfires? NO. 6 shooter revolvers? NO. They are going to bring in the best shit, with the highest rate of fire & biggest magazines they can acquire cheaply... and then where are we, since we've given up a majority of our legitimate weapons?

In the next 20 years, with the number of LEGAL immigrants of a certain religious persuasion flooding into Australia, 'yall gonna be wishing to hell we had still had a few more guns floating around. (and before anyone has a whinge, I HATE every religion EQUALLY, ask Crypto, its just that 1 religion treats life a little more cheaply & wishes to force its archaic laws on others a little more then the others at this current point in history)

lol not hard to get a gun here brother, yes there is a process to get them LEGALLY and its not hard. I could go pick up an illegal chinese made ak-47 for $10,000 and be home within an hour (i dont have the money lol) but i wouldn't buy it even if i had the cash because i simply don't need one, i have bolt action center fires and rim fires and they do the job just fine for what they are intended for. Any murders with guns in this country in this day and age are done with illegally acquired guns not legitimately bought and registered guns.

EDIT: Sorry forgot to add this. It is very hard to legally acquire and register a semi-automatic here

I'd be interested to see your source for that Donut. The articles I read none of them mention that the audience was armed. What I did find was that the theatre was the only one in the area that had a no guns rule, so the chances of the audience actually being armed is pretty slim.

Regan was also shot during by a guy who was trying to impress Jodie Foster, although he survived.

Our laws are tighter. it states in swiss law they dont need a permit to buy a firearm off another person (another licensed holder not a gun shop). In Aus you need to take the firearm to a firearms dealer aka shop and they fill in a transfere paper. they then transfere it to another shop or house the firearm there for the new purchaser to pick up, all firearms need a permit to aquire in australia which can take anywhere between 1 day to 30. First firearm permit takes 28 days. Switzland doesnt require a permit for each firearm. In switzerland purchasing black power requires details of address ect, in australia you need to show your license (gun license that is) for any purchase whether is packeted ammunition or un primed brass casings.

Gun related crimes in australia are mainly between criminal hangs hitting each other so that should be no bearing on tightening laws here as those criminals more than likely would have procured those firearms in an illegitimate way.

Now i dont think firearms specifically are the problem in america but the people and the system that governs it is incredibly at fault. In certain states anything under a 30 cal doesnt need to be registered. For you who are unaware what this means is basically you could have an AR platform rifle or 20 and the government wouldnt even know, great for criminal groups not good for those caught in between.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTQFtNLvcl8


Kennedy was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, and that Jack Ruby also acted alone when he killed Oswald before he could stand trial. Who was Jack Ruby?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ruby

Oswald 'bought' the rifle with some forged IDs thing is, the serial number stamped on the rifle istelf was completely unique as in it was untracable.
Oswald was a former U.S. Marine who defected to the Soviet Union in October 1959. He lived in the Soviet Union until June 1962, at which time he returned to the United States.

Dont use an assassination on a US president to push the argument cos this particular one is very grey.

Back on topic:
http://au.news.yahoo.com/video/national/watch/19028173/call-for-game-rating-overhaul/?cmp=ob

Idiot parents complaining about an R18+ game. Clearly not for children, solution dont want your kids to play it? dont let them.

I must have got my wires crossed with something else because it appears you are correct.
I did find this interesting article though

http://gawker.com/5928510/six-dumb-arguments-were-hearing-about-the-aurora-shooting

The problem is that when a lot of people have a gun, it's a lot easier to go get it in the heat of the moment.

People don't really care if criminal scum are killing criminal scum, it's when innocents get killed, or people get shot over a minor dispute. If you've got a loaded gun in the bedside table, it's so much easier to get pissed off, go home, get the gun, and shoot people.

The general public rarely get shot in Australia, it's mostly gangs shooting gangs, and when only the robber has a gun, the chance of someone getting shot drops a lot. Few heroes means few deaths.

What I found interesting about the Swiss was that instead of a standing army, they have a national militia. From memory it's men aged 18-30, they do a year of full time training, then they get sent home with their government issued weapons.

It was an interesting article Donut. Very much against gun proliferation.

I think there numbers have dropped even more since then.  the current swiss militia budget is 0.8% GDP and one report i have seen puts militia intakes at less then 10k persons per year.

Yeah lol thats why no one wants to fuck with the swiss, they have the right idea :D

I could get you a chinese ak-47 for $20,000. Put a mag through it on full auto and watch the thing fall apart in your hands lol :D

Then its clearly not an ak  :PDT_Armataz_01_12:

LOL it is an ak bud, just cheaper material. What do you think most of these fucked countries use? 50% of them are actually the chinese Type56. Was kidding they dont fall apart in your hands :P